Meryl Fury on Healthy Nutrition for Kids

Welcome to the Glenn murer show where we talk all things vegan if you’re not already vegan no worries we’ll get you there if you are tune in for health advice information on climate change and all the Damage Done by our most destructive industry animal agriculture we’ll also talk cooking theater film and culture my two reasons for starting this podcast to entertain to inform and to make people vegan oh that’s three welcome to the Glen murer show you can find us across all your favorite podcast platforms. You could find us on YouTube please remember to subscribe and you could find us at real Menat plants.com my special guest today is my good friend Merill Fury Merill is the uh president and CE of the plantbased nutrition movement that’s pbnm org she’s been a registered nurse specializing in public health for over 30 years and she’s a member of the American College of Lifestyle medicine Merl welcome to the show hey Glenn how are you it’s good to see you I I am fine good and uh. Merl you are also uh one of the founders of a new organization yes shall we talk about that for a moment yeah thanks for opening that sure yeah so the new organization is called The Sage Circle Alliance SCA for short and it is an organization designed to bring together healthy vegans and Whole Food plant-based entrepreneurs thought leaders and change makers to try and I’m not going even going to say try because we are going to shift the Paradigm that all of us were born into which. Talks about scarcity and competition and um lack and instead shifted toward abundance and cooperation and collaboration and trying to make a difference for the planet the people and the animals that live on the planet The Sage Circle Alliance yes and you are one of the co-founders thereof yes my co-founder who is not here with me um is Paul chatlin of plant-based nutrition support group uh physically located in the you know like Detroit area in Michigan um and we have I don’t know right now I’m gonna. Say about 30 other organizations individuals and pro for-profits nonprofits who are all interested in the same thing we realize that working in silos and not collaborating puts us at a disadvantage you know especially as if we’re a small business which most of us are we could be solopreneurs or maybe we have two or three people or we’re a a you know lowbudget nonprofit um it to work in silos doesn’t forward the mission very well it really doesn’t so if we can collaborate and expand our reach. And and Link arms and share resources we can get further you know there’s that African saying that says something like if you want to go fast go alone and if you want to go far go together so that’s a good saying I didn’t know that we’re here to go together all right so the Sage Circle Alliance launches when starts for public view May 1 all right yeah so we are we’ve been working on it for about a year Paul and I and a few other um. Dedicated people have joined us along the way um Glenn being one of them which we so deeply appreciate um yeah so we’ve been working on it for about a year building the infrastructure and you know coming up with ground rules and um mission and vision and building the website and all those things that go into creating anything these days and yeah literally in May it’ll be one year so okay we’re pretty excited to get it launched now the subject for today is healthy children growing healthy. Children now I don’t have any kids um I have met some children along the way and you were a kid once I think so still are in some ways you know I’ve developed some insights about children that I will share I’ve noticed that many of them are shorter than I am for example you know there are things I’ve learned um tell us about the challenges of getting kids to eat healthy and I’m guessing one of the challenges is their parents that’s a tremendous challenge it’s a. Big one so there this is a really big story big big big it’s a whole world right Child Nutrition people go to school and get phds in Child Nutrition and then they spend many many years after that working in the field um so we’re not going to go into that deep of a conversation but you know we can hit the high spots on on the Glenn murer show we specialize in Shallow conversation that’ll be fun well you know shallow is good you can tap your toe. In the water and you know take a deeper dive later on yeah so um so I’m a public health nurse by not not So Much by um education I did not specialize in public health in nursing school but after school I came out and I went right into public health and one of the things that I realized over years of working with families and mostly in public health we work with families who have very limited resources is that the children are always I mean this is. So obvious but children always at the mercy of the people around them in the environment right they don’t have any autonomy they don’t have any agency they don’t have any Authority they literally are at the mercy of whatever Wind Blows through in that way because our society tends to eat poorly and um the food system tends to promote foods that do not promote Health children get really really the worst of the nutrition in the society and that doesn’t matter if it is a child from a. Well-off family or a child whose family is struggling it doesn’t matter if the parents are married or if they finish college or if they have a dog or if they go to church or if they eat dinner together every night children very often get very poor quality food and this is tearing at the fabric of our society the numbers of children and of course this goes without saying but I do have to say it children grow up to be adults right they don’t stay five years. Old and six and seven forever they grow up so as we feed children poor quality foods and they develop illnesses early which we are seeing higher rates of cancer among young people higher rates of high diabetes high blood pressure heart disease um obesity all these illnesses yeah and we used to call it adult onset diabetes we used call diabetes type two diabetes used to be adult onset diabetes and now it is not type one used to be juvenile right now it is not necessarily so and. A lot of these these these illnesses these chronic illnesses are related to Lifestyle it’s related to the kind of food that we are eating or feeding to our children sadly the average child spends something like at least in this country 5 to seven hours in front of some kind of a screen every day so that has two impacts it means that they’re not moving they’re not outside running up and down right for all kinds of reasons including screen time and they are getting marketed to re. Relentlessly right because for the most part if they’re in front of a screen they’re going to be ads coming through the screen they might be pretty subtle in the form of let’s say if it’s they’re watching a video game it might be that there’s some conspicuously placed item on the screen or in the game um there might be literal ads in the games it could be um that if they’re watching a video there’s commercials there are other conspicuously placed products in the videos um you know. They’re just being marketed too relentlessly and there’s not a whole lot of oversight one and and the companies that are doing these marketing that doing the marketing are very very clever very very slick in how they are showing these products to children and associating joy and connection and all kinds of things with these products and the children take that in like it’s true like yes if I have a Big Mac it’ll make me happy today you know this is a Happy Meal I can go have. That and I’ll be happy you know or there just so many different things you know um it’s fun I can eat Sugar Pops or Dora the Explorer cereal and all it’s all very joyful you know but it’s also contributing to their long-term their long-term illness actually deteriorating their health so that’s the yeah yeah that’s something it’s something for us all to confront you know as parents we’re trying to do the best by our children I can tell you as a 30 plus year veteran of as. A a public health nurse and going into people’s homes and working in clinics I have never ever had a parent tell me I wish my child struggle with obesity I hope my child has heart disease I can’t wait to see them deal with diabetes oh my goodness I live I’ve never seen that right but still we are as parents and in a certain form of ignorance is bliss or you know not knowing or um you know just going along with what’s easy we are contributing to. These kinds of problems in our children yeah the sad thing is that I feel and I’ll bet you feel and a lot of people feel that it was in many ways easier to be a kid when we were kids I mean Society is not moving forward when you have to say to kids oh life was better in the old days yeah but you know when I was in high school or college I could sit somewhere on a bench and read a book and I wouldn’t get. Texts you know I wouldn’t get bothered um uh maybe a friend would walk by and I would interact with somebody in person but it it wouldn’t be this constant uh addiction to a screen yes yes very true and yet it’s so hard imagine being in high school today and saying I’m not going to get a smartphone right you know uh I’m sure there must be some kids out there who do that but they’re the very very small minority everybody feels compelled to get a smartphone and. Then they get addicted to YouTube or or Tik Tock or Instagram or Facebook or some video game that they play video games and um it’s kind of hard to imagine life being as interesting when you’re doing that all the time yeah yeah and you and and you know I could make an analogy to diet in that when I became a vegetarian at 17 I just didn’t care what anybody thought I said I’m not eating meat anymore right and for me the reasons were Health not that. There was anything wrong with my health but that all my relatives were dying of heart attacks um and I just made up my mind and I did it and I and it meant that I stood apart a little bit uh you know if there was some kind of uh you know party where everybody was having spaghetti and meatballs well I couldn’t have the meatballs um so I didn’t mind standing apart in fact I viewed that as I guess something of an advantage I like standing right. Right but it’s not the way apparently most people think and so they now to you know if I were in high school today I think I’d say I’m going vegan and I’m not going to have a smartphone you know you have to stand apart in more ways yeah well now you know the kids are marketed to about fear of missing out don’t miss out you know and if you don’t have a smartphone you might miss something important something valuable something that all your friends are going. To be talking about tomorrow so there’s that too you know I was similar to you I started this whole plant-based Journey when I was 15 so I carved you know mammals out of my diet at that age and then you know slowly whittel other animal products out of my diet over time and I remember that feeling of standing apart of being one of the only now as I got older that became something that I like I I like that’s something I I treasure right I’m frequently. The only only one of whatever it is wherever I go very often right I’m just the only one um so we can start with I might be the only one wearing beads in my hair that’s pretty common or I might be the only one um for a long time I was the only African-American nurse where I worked you know um and so being the only one wherever I am is is part of how I recognize myself I am so glad I took the beads out of. My hair right podcast you better because I’m the only one allowed anyway yeah but you know it there’s there’s something to be said for being able to stand apart right and not get sucked into the um or indoctrinated into let’s say a lot of the stuff that is actually detrimental for us in the long run yeah so how do kids learn to eat a healthy diet when in fact their school lunches could be miserably unhealthy their parents could be eating in an unhealthy way they’re being. Marketed to by you know McDonald’s and and fried chicken places and yes how do you cut through all that to learn to eat human food wow well you know that is such a a I hate to say this sounds like a cliche but it really is a good question right because I try to do one per show you know you you nailed it that one na I could relax now you can go back to bed um you know it’s really challenging when the parents are also. Heavily marketed too and the parents maybe are working a full-time job or in some cases parents are working a full-time and a part-time or they’re working three part-time jobs or whatever right um energy is at a premium then and the amount of time I have to prepare decent food is at a premium it’s very short right so people are doing things um and choosing food based on convenience and what I can get done quickly and you know turn around and give the child and the child. Will have a full belly and I can go on to the next thing so that’s one thing so if I there’s probably several answers to your question one is as you are doing do your best to educate the adults in the room right that’s one thing that’s very important separately though if we can get programs into schools that give children the experience of healthy food so I am grateful to say honored to say that I have the opportunity to go into schools or I’ll go into. Boys and Girls Clubs I go into um summer camps anywhere there’s children already accumulated and I don’t have to do that part I’ll go in and speak with the kids and give them experience of eating black beans and rice which is one of my favorite things in the world or tomatoes blueberries broccoli sunflower seeds pumpkin seeds whatever it is right and we try to all colors right purple cabbage make make all colors yellow squash all colors um and just give the children a chance to eat. These things and try these things things because a lot of kids literally do not eat a fresh fruit or a fresh vegetable in the course of a 7-Day period there was a study that was um published I’m G to say it was a year ago in February that talked about it was by the published by the CDC and it was saying that I believe it was one in two children I’m remembering the statistics right one and two children did not get a fresh fruit in seven. Days and one in three didn’t get a vegetable or maybe it was the reverse of that but either way they’re not getting nearly enough fruits or vegetables and the way the study was um done they asked the parents to do a 7-Day recall of what the children had eating had eaten in the previous seven days so there’s really the study did not show as far as I recall if it was the the kids hadn’t had a fruit or vegetable in seven days or was it also. The previous seven days did it include the previous previous seven days so was it seven days or 21 days was it seven days or seven months that the children hadn’t had a vegetable there’s also information this is available um I think this came from the Journal of the American Medical Association that children are getting 67% of their calories from Ultra processed foods and that was in 2018 that’s just appalling it’s appalling so back to your question giving children the experience of eating these foods which they. Literally may not have a chance to ever even try is a big step in getting them to think oh I could eat carrots I could ask for an apple oh there are different kinds of apples different apples have different flavors I could eat beans there are different kinds of beans there’s different kinds of grains you know to get start them thinking in a different way about what food is we when I go into a classroom one of the most important things in the way I like. To start is just ask the kids what is food what is it why do we eat do we eat just to fill our bellies well sometimes but is that why your body wants food what does your body want when it when you’re hungry what it wants is nutrients it doesn’t want red dye number 40 it’s not asking for that right it’s not asking for you know whatever blue D 10 or you know whatever monosodium glutamate it’s not asking for that it’s asking for nutrients to nourish. The the tissues and your brain and you know all that so I’m sorry I feel like I’m rattling on and on but well here’s my next piercing question go now when you talk to these kids and the answer may depend upon their age do you simply try to introduce them and importantly I don’t want to minimize it but do you importantly just try to introduce them to healthy foods or do you address the opposite side of that meat is unhealthy Dairy is unhealthy sugar is unhealthy. Fried foods are unhealthy do you talk about that or is that a little bit beyond the pale or it depends upon the age um well generally speaking I am just there to give them experience of healthy food I am not not passing judgment on what they may be eating at home and we have to remember not every you know just like we said the parent may only be providing processed foods or McDonald’s or Burger King or Pizza Hut or whatever it is right toaster pastries that’s. Sometimes what the child is getting so we don’t ever want to make it seem like you’re eating bad food and your parents are eating giving you bad food and you know that would make child feel pretty sad if that’s what if that’s the message we’re delivering we have to be careful about that it’s a little bit of a fine line to walk right we don’t want to have some child feel poor bad about their home situation right so I just give them experience of these foods. And we talk about like I said what is food why do we eat what do we get from food why do we need to eat the rainbow how does fiber what is what is fiber why is that important um how does what we eat affect the world around us how does it you know okay let’s sit down and have a meal here together what can we do over the table besides look at screens how about we have a conversation right so that’s the type of stuff. That I bring in I like I said I I try not to bring in the the whole thing about meat is bad and sugar is bad now that being said depending upon the age and right now I’m working with I’m going to say they’re averaging around 10 years old fourth and fifth graders um they may ask the questions yeah is what do you is is eating cheese healthy I had a a child asked me that well cheese can cause problems for your heart right it puts. A lot of fat in your body so if it was me I would not eat that I do not eat that but then if they came back and said well my parents think cheese is good okay well your parents have a right to say that your parents are the ultimate you know the people responsible for you so you do what your parents say I would never undermine a parent’s Authority with the child that’s the problem of course because the parents are often making the mistakes themselves. Yes yes the parents have been well indoctrinated too yeah even the grandparents have been well indoctrinated too it can be quite generational you know when you I’m here in Wisconsin this is one of the dairy States it used to be V Dairy state right um so we have children here who their parents are Dairy Farmers yeah well okay that’s a pretty that’s a tough one to go up against I’m not going up against that in fact we’re not having that argument yeah but you can try. This broccoli how about that try try oh look these are mangoes try these mangoes these delicious that’s kind of how I handle it now tell us what’s going on in Illinois with the school lunches yeah so thanks for asking about that the school lunch uh law changed this the beginning of this school year so um I I I hesitate to give the date but it was August of 3 the new law went into effect right and it says that a child can or their parents can. Request a plant-based lunch from the local school district and receive it and that includes the milk component which is new right up until now you couldn’t really get plant-based milk in schools on an average day in the average location so in Illinois the children can or the parents can request the plant-based lunch and it would include soy milk interestingly enough I heard about this law because it was you know somebody announced it on NPR or something like that and then I never heard about it again. It got very quiet there was no conversation about it even people I know in the whole food plant pay vegetarian parent realm never heard about it it’s been very very quiet so we’ve been working with another group called balanced um which is a nonprofit and another group called good chaos and we are working together to bring awareness to this law so that parents could actually at least have the opportunity to opt in for plant-based lunches for their children if they knew about it you know so. We’re our goal is to bring awareness we have a website up that is called more plants on on plates IL Illinois more plants on plates.com and it explains a little bit about the law there’s a a a form that the parents or the child if they’re in high school the child can fill it out that says I’m requesting a plant-based lunch it gives the name the school district um you know how what days per week do they want the plant-based lunch so just to make it. Easier for them should they be interested okay yeah we’re also working with maybe five or six schools in the state of Illinois who have chosen to take on providing a fully plant-based lunch at least one day a week for all people on campus who are eating lunch so that’s another thing which we feel is a major accomplishment um one of the schools for example is the academy for global citizenship which is in Chicago uh they already are pretty Progressive program and they already do provide a. Lot of plant-based meals for their kids so we’re just like going to be reinforcing and and giving support to what they’re doing I’ll be speaking at their professional development day on Monday actually to help support the like team cohesion for you you mentioned an organization called good chaos that’s an intriguing title well tell us about that um you know I can’t tell you a lot about them they are um totally in support of this mission to get children to eat healthy food they are um helping. Fund our efforts somewhat and I I really can’t go into any more about it than that but um they’re located in the Midwest and you know I would throw rose pedals at their feet for the support that they’ve given this project and their commitment to helping children eat healthy food and are you getting any resistance to those efforts you know the resistance comes in silence it is that that people don’t talk about this they don’t promote it they don’t make it known there’s there’s not posters. In schools on the walls saying try the plant-based lunch option today you know that’s not there um I think that’s that’s really the resistance we’ve seen so far it’s that the best kept secret you know is where we see the change the challenge there are some colleges a few I think a couple may be in England that have made the default meal vegan and if you want to eat meat you have to ask for it right um can you tell us anything about that are you. Aware of those programs no two things I can tell you about that yeah I want to say it’s in Scotland maybe University of Glasgow I’ve heard okay um is doing that I don’t know how well it’s gone or how far it’s gone or how deep they’re into it but again hats off to you hudos and Applause for making that the default meal the other thing that I’ve heard is about the country of Denmark that yes the entire country there was a declaration that we’re going plant-based. Now just by weird coincidence I have a son that lives in Denmark oh so I have been asking him what do you know about this what do you see about this and he said well first of all in Denmark U people are pretty dedicated to their pork products I believe there are more pigs in that country than there are people uh the other thing is they have a they’re very dedicated to animal products in their diet very and and a lot of fats a lot of. Fats so one of the things that my son told me is that for for example get a slice of bread this is very common maybe it’s the you know our age people and above I don’t know if it happens among the younger people also but you get a slice of bread and you’ll you know like put your layer of butter on it spread butter on it the butter for it to you’ll know you have enough butter if when you bite into it you can see your. Teeth marks left in the layer of butter right so is L they call it teeth butter that’s how much you want teeth butter so there is a high rate of heart disease in Denmark you know so so I applaud them also that at least at the governmental level they’re starting the conversation by saying you know plants are important and and that’s the direction that we’re going I think that’s powerful that it came from the at the at the federal level or at the at the national. Level for them amazing okay we’ll take a quick break and we’ll be back with Merill Fury all right if you’ve ever wanted to show off your plant-based lifestyle and do it in style here’s your chance we have some of the most amazing t-shirts half accessories coffee mugs and more at shop. Menat plants.com we have statement t-shirts that will bring a smile to everyone’s face I love thee I want tofu tonight te plus we have podcast te’s real women e plants gear real kids eat plants and. Real people eat plants just in case men women and kids didn’t cover it all yeah we love you and love that you want to show off that healthy lifestyle of yours again check out our highquality gear at shop. real Menat plants.com and [Music] enjoy all right we’re speaking with Merill Fury the president and CEO of the plantbased nutrition movement we’re talking about raising healthy kids and Merl you have raised three kids so tell us about the challenges you faced and how you met them to try. To get you your own kids to eat a healthy diet okay well let me start by saying um I can be a little forceful really I know it’s hard to believe I know you can’t imagine I could be a little forceful so um I have two biological children right two sons and then I have my bonus daughter who is just daughter of my heart I I I could not have asked for a child more compatible for who I am right um and I I didn’t have. To birth her how lucky right to get the the perfect perfect match and I didn’t have to go through any child birth um with her so the two older ones clearly I raised from birth and the young the well let me see my two Biologicals they are they do happen to be the older ones I raised from birth and then my daughter um came to us when she was 16 years old so two like three different um situations so my older son when he was born. The oldest one I was 25ish and I was studying herbology so anytime he got sick I was giving him herbs right so he took more than his share of green smoothies and um cayenne pepper and gley grass and my goodness pretty you experimented on him I did yeah I did but it was like kind of safe experimentation was all um golden seal powder I did all kinds of things anyway um he live to tell the tale and that’s great he is also a very adventurous eater. Not really plant-based he is not shy away from vegetables at all but he will also eat like eel and crickets and Prairie oysters crickets rickets he likes to travel he likes to go to you know other countries and whatever the local fair is he’s willing to try it God bless him I don’t know how he does it he sends me crazy pictures of things that he’s eating I don’t understand but that’s okay you know maybe one day he’ll stop doing that or at least stop sending. Me pictures of it anyway so that’s oh my wife hates Cricket so she’ll be very happy with him oh I don’t know how he does it but anyway okay so that’s that’s that was um with him he ate what I provided not a problem always a lot of vegetables uh and then you know when he got older moved out of the house the rest of it was you know on him he made his own path the next one is actually a very good cook was always. Interested in being in the kitchen from the time he was maybe two years old he would come in the kitchen when I was chopping vegetables or whatever and he would want to chop he would want to help so he’s been cooking almost his entire life literally he is now 24 uh and this is the one that lives in Denmark amazing cook and he is plant-based the only time that he will eat animal products he’s he’s very cautious if he’s over somebody else’s house and they’re having. Whatever they’re having he doesn’t want them to have to make a fun USS or go out of their way just for him so he’ll eat whatever they provide uh or whatever they’re having for dinner or whatever but on his own he is plant-based all the time 100% of the time and makes some amazing meals like he sends me pictures of stuff that he’s created and really my first thought is why aren’t you home here in the United States cooking for me while you’re making these things. Because he makes amazing things he is also um Muslim this is a A New Path he’s taken right now practicing or or um yeah practicing Ramadan I guess is how you’d say it observing Ramadan so um eating within the time constraints uh applied by the religion so he’s doing really well he eats plant based primarily I think for health reasons uh and because he sees that there’s just no reason there’s no reason to eat animal products it just doesn’t it doesn’t contribute anything of value for. Him he doesn’t need to eat that and he’s very into caring for his body and one of the things that he’s come to since uh beginning to study Islam and practice uh Muslim faith is that you know what so many of the religions say that the body is sacred that the body is um to be kept clean and healthy and honored and and cared for and eating animal products and junk and Ultra processed food doesn’t do what is dictated by a lot of religions right it. Does not care for the body so he’s plant-based 99.9% of the time excuse me my daughter um had you know an interesting Journey so when she came to live with us it was because her mom who is a friend of mine was moving out of town and my her Monique wanted to stay in the town where she had grown up she wound up coming to live with us and finishing High School while she stayed with us when she came to us Mo’Nique had particularly picky habits. About what to eat uh she only wanted to eat like white pasta with butter or with Parmesan cheese on it um or craft macaroni and cheese was a big favorite chicken nuggets in fact one day I asked her so what do I feed you honey I don’t I’m at a loss I don’t know what to do and she said just feed me like if I was a five-year-old a 16-year-old girl I was like blown away like I don’t know what to do and I I didn’t. Want to rupture the relationship that we were developing I did so I I gave in I was like okay I’ve got to feed you something okay it’s white pasta and mac and cheese and then over time she came kind of out of that shell and now she is same age as as my younger son she’s 24 and she’s a competitive athlete she’s does Brazilian jiujitsu and she rode on the crew team for her college for four years five years she rode right through her master’s program. Now she is the um manager or coach for the crew team the women’s crew team and she is very serious about her nutrition so she’s now baking her own bread and you know uh eating Brussels sprouts and kale salads and it’s like a total transformation for her it’s amazing just amazing um she’s about I’m gonna say 5 foot one or 5 foot2 she’s not big as a minute and I would go anywhere with her her functioning as my bodygard she will just take a person down. If it comes to it you know she’s amazingly strong um so yeah I think when it comes to raising your own kids it’s just a matter of continually offering them other options and remembering that um we are parents we’re not necessarily the child’s friend when we can be their friend that’s a bonus but for the most part we’re there to put guardrails on life and keep them alive and teach them how to uh eat well and and make it to the next phase of life and. That includes eating lots of fruits and vegetables and fiber and whole grains and nuts and seeds and mushrooms and um as well as being Discerning about who you’re spending your time with and where you’re choosing to go and you know what you think is valuable and I mean you know parenting as a whole is a lifetime it’s a world you know it never stops how about that psychological issue I raised before about standing apart yeah because in our society if you’re going to eat a healthy. Diet you um almost have to stand apart there may be some vegan commune somewhere you can join but other than that you’re going to be standing apart yes um and how do you talk to kids about the value of that wow you know my dad used to tell me and at the time I probably didn’t get the full weight of what he was saying but he used to tell me be a leader even if you are a leader of One be a leader you don’t have. To go with the crowd you don’t have to try and fit in just you know manage yourself and what’s best for you and let everybody else figure their own stuff out I think that you know looking back on it that was pretty pretty Sage advice you know yeah to to be able to stand apart to be able to to weather what that is to to do what you know is best for yourself in all kinds of situations not just food right because there’s all kinds of. Offers that come across for everybody all day and especially when you’re a kid there’s people offering all kinds of garbage that you shouldn’t get involved in now you didn’t grow up on the plant-based diet you came to it as an adult so tell us about your thought process as you began to discover wait a minute these Foods I’m eating over here aren’t healthy and these Foods over here are healthy and the society I’m in the medical system in which I work is not reinforcing these lessons. At what point did that become uh a kind of rebellion that you you were making a conscious decision to stand apart well all right so I started this journey when I was 15 right like I said so I’ve been standing apart a long time long long time and it is in fact how I recognize myself and that was that was an an emotional or moral thing about eating animals right it was neither oh no no I stopped eating and it start it started with mammals so. I stopped eating the four leggeds MH um because at that time when I was 15 the cost of meat started to Skyrocket it started getting very expensive and my mother was complaining all the time about how expensive it was and at that time we used to eat three Square meals a day and one of the corners of the square was animal products meat right there’s milk and then there’s vegetables and there’s a starch and fruit was an afterthought but that that how it started for me. It was because my mother was so distressed about the budget I offered to stop eating meat and actually I committed to stop eating meat to to relieve her of that budgetary problem or at least to do what I could at that age so I grew up you know that was a commitment I made over long time at when I became a nurse now now I’m going to jump to that nursing school and We Know by extension medical school does not teach us anything really about nutrition. I took a nutrition course trying you know in preparation actually is before I even thought about going to nursing school I took a nutrition course at the University level and it did not really teach me anything about using food as medicine or to prevent illness it taught about you know the micronutrients like vitamins and minerals and then the macronutrients which are proteins fats and carbohydrates and that’s what we learned very sort of compartmentalized view of nutrition there was nothing much in it about fiber except for. It helps you poop there’s a little bit about water yep you need water but it didn’t there was no discussion of using food as medicine or how food contributes to a healthy body or the Converse that eating too much junk could be possibly detrimental then going into nursing and use being that in that profession um you know it’s amazing speaking of marketing the number of pharmaceutical reps that pass through a clinic or a or a health care space and the type of gifts that they leave. For the the healthcare professionals there so it could be anything from 24 donuts oh my or cakes or if it’s oh my gosh the holiday season chocolates and pies and cakes and cookies and every so weeks so many weeks or there’s a a drug wrap lunch where they’re bringing in I’m not even going to name the variety of restaurants and what all they’re bringing so that you’ll sit down and you’ll listen to their latest Spiel on the newest medication you know um so the the healthc. Care professional staff has continually fed all kinds of not healthy foods and you know when you look at nurses in particular were 4.2 million I believe registered nurses and then there’s a whole set of people who are um you know LPNs or um nursing assistants within the nursing realm we’ll call that so even at 4 million let’s say people in the healthcare Workforce nurses are the largest component of the healthc Care Workforce and we are also among the least healthy right we’re we’re encouraged to work. Long hours we’re encouraged to not go to the restroom because that patient needs your help um you’re encouraged to do double shifts and and not sleep and then there’s all this horrible food that’s pumped through through the clinic space right or the hospital space if you can’t get lunch because your charting is not done or because this patient crashing or something’s going on well here here’s these cheese crackers or these peanut butter crackers or this you know glazed donut or whatever um so at some point. If you’re paying attention it’s you can start to see that the the healthc care environment itself is not healthy does not promote Health it promotes illness um and that you know when when the healthc care professional can look and see that that is an opportunity for a light bulb moment you know what am I doing what am I doing to myself I’m I am causing my own high blood pressure I am causing my own depression I am causing my own um heart disease you know oh. I’m I’m I’m causing my own obesity right I’m these things to myself so um those are those are valuable valuable insights when when we can kind of wake up long enough to have them and then stay awake long enough to to um to just change that whole that whole dynamic right you remind me of Dr Kim Williams line which is I’m not afraid to die I just don’t want it to be my fault right I’m not here to kill myself I got children I got things. To do I’ve got things to do I don’t want to eat myself to death yeah and that for me is one of the leading moral Arguments for a whole food plant-based diet you know people think of the moral argument being to to save the animals and I don’t disagree what we do to the animals is cruel but it seems to me that the moral thing to do when there are people who depend on you and people who love you and people you love is to do. Your best to stay healthy for them that’s right and we know how to do that we can’t claim that we don’t know that there’s nobody out there I don’t think making the case that sausage is healthier than broccoli right I hope not right right well there’s probably a few just because right but so true just about a year ago my husband had a heart attack right after living with me for 25 years oh my goodness like how could that have happened right but that is one. Of the conversations that we had was okay for 25 years I have talked to you at least once a week at least about your diet right the the the cheese pizza and the sausage and the cheeseburgers and all that it’s predictable how that’s going to end right that we know what we know how that goes and I told him you know okay so I would never do that to myself knowing that you would be left to take care of the Fallout I just wouldn’t do that. To you I wouldn’t do it to myself and I wouldn’t do it to you right as the repercussions of a heart attack or a stroke or diabetes or cancer those are um those can overwhelm a family right that can devastate your finances it can just take change life literally financially spiritually psychologically emotionally again it’s it’s overwhelming so I um like to tell people that are willing to hear it take care of yourself if if if not for yourself for your family for your loved ones nobody. Wants to nobody wants to deal with that kind of Fallout it’s horrible is your husband needing a better diet now he most certainly is he had a heart attack and and he had the light bulb moment the angel sang to him and understood so what what do you like to eat and what does he like to eat now what are some of your favorite foods oh my goodness may just share together just for Giggles you know so we’ve started this um we just started this this. Week we’re going to every pizza place in southeast Wisconsin Looking for the best vegan pizza okay so this is cheese country it is also beef and Cow Country so we’re going to little restaurants this is usually we go out every Friday night anyway it’s date night and we’re looking for the best vegan pizza now when you do that yeah do you say no cheese or do they sometimes offer a vegan cheese and you go with that they sometimes offer a vegan cheese but we do not. Take that right so you that you do what I do you just say no cheese no I don’t even want your vegan cheese because it’s loaded with oil yeah no no no so last night we went to a little place we’ never been to before we got there one available vegan pie right which had really great red sauce basil some roasted red peppers mushrooms artichoke carts black olives onion it was delicious was great you know yeah so that’s that’s something that we do together we enjoy. You know yeah yeah sometimes what my wife and I do when we decide to have a pizza a commercial Pizza that we’re getting from some pizza place is we say uh no cheese and maybe we choose one topping like artichokes or something we take it home but we’ve already prepared at home lots of healthy vegetables because we trust the way we prepare vegetables more than the way they prepare the vegetables so then we leave it to them to give us the the base of the pizza. But we add on a bunch of vegetable yeah that’s pretty brilliant actually all right now besides the pizza what what do you and your husband like to eat uh let’s see we are large mushroom people so we’ll so you only eat large mushrooms yeah yes we like large mushrooms big portabella mushrooms portella mushrooms not little shitake mushrooms I also like shiitake and I also like um almost any other kind okay like oyster mushrooms or um chantells or any of those but you know some of those. More exotic ones are a little bit harder to come by up here anyway so we’ll make um portabello mushroom cap Burger we can do that on the grill we can do it in the air fry or however we choose to do it make that a burger uh I we I I’m a big beans and rice person I love give me black bean chili I could eat that a long time um or a you know like a like a Cuban black bean soup or a Costa Rican. Gaop Pinto I love that um Jeff is also good with those things try to think what is something that he really enjo oh so I have a soy Sensitivity I don’t I don’t do well with soy but there are now some commercially available other types of tofu so there’s a chickpea tofu that I find locally Mash that up and make a Mediterranean style uh tofu scramble is good it’s got basil and roasted bell peppers and um some garlic some onion trying to think what else is. There a little turmeric to make it yellow that lemon is in there too little oregano I think is in there very good very very good yeah Jeff enjoys that he likes hummus I tend to make it kind of chunky so it’s you know not the totally smooth puree version It’s mashed with a fork or a potato masher I do tahini in it lemon garlic parsley scallions Mash that up he likes that so and and it’s it’s taken something for him to convert his pallet but he’s. Doing very much better now than he was a year ago right after his heart attack for sure right great and favorite desserts can I just say I love chocolate chip cookies oh I love CH if I had to have a drug my drug of choice would be chocolate chip cookies so but what I do with them uh is use rolled oats as the primary part of the base for them Mash in a ripe banana some Vanilla some um peanut butter some grated apple and then mix. In did I say cinnamon mix in the um chocolate chips and baked F and that is wonderful so you get dark dairyfree oh yeah chocolate chips yes in fact I found some chocolate chips not only are they soyf free and dairy free and allergen free they are only sweetened with dates yes those are available now and in fact um Chef AJ is coming out with a new book called sweet Indulgence yes in which she recommend those dat sweetened sugarfree dairyfree chocolate chips they are really not. As the basis of your diet right but just as a little treat once in a while yes you’re in there yeah yeah for sure well Merill it’s been a pleasure speaking with you as always and it’s good to see you and I’m glad your husband is doing well and finally listening to you Jeff I’m done yeah listen to the woman Jeff come on all right anything you want to tell our audience about where to uh where where to go online to uh find some of the. Enterprises you’re involved with sure so our website is PB nm.org that stands for plant-based nutrition movement.org you can go there and find um a lot our you know our newsletter and blog and you know everything that we’re up to with kids is there um we will be you know I I’m sure Glenn will I’ll have to get more information to you about the Sage Circle Alliance that should be coming up soon not quite ready for a full publication right now but I’ll get that to you. As soon as that’s ready uh look at more plants on plates.com to find out about what’s going on in Illinois I’m so proud of that work so so proud and so grateful that we’ve had the opportunity to make that kind of difference for children in Illinois um and by extension if anyone is interested in doing similar work in their state or they’re interested in getting a program for children into a school I would be so happy to you know have those conversations provide any support I. Can to to just continually move the mission forward it’s way bigger of a project than any one of us can do alone we cannot do this work alone we have to collaborate we have to link arms we have to work together and I am honored to do that work with anyone who’s interested well thank you Merill for all you do and we will see you soon all right thanks Glenn you take care you too all right bye- bye this has been the Glenn murer show where. Everyone listening turns vegan regains their health and annoys their friends and relatives find us on YouTube at the Glenn murer show and across all your major podcast platforms don’t forget to [Music] subscribe.